Here is the thing, each of the items listed are things that were taught in WT/JW literature that was offered to the public in the 1970s and/or 1980s (and later years), so why would a JW be ashamed to admit those teachings? Back when I was a JW I would not have been ashamed to tell them, for I was offering Watchtowers to the people which contained study articles saying those things I was offering various books which taught such things. Not all of those things were in every issue of the WT, but some WT issues would teach some of the things and others would teach some of the other things; a collection of WT literature taught all of those things. For example, The Babylon The Great book and the Then is Finished the Mystery of God book were offered door to the public for a period of time, and studied in congregation Book Studies in JW homes, for a period of time, and those who studied the Bible with the JWs were invited to attend those meetings.
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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27
List of Critical WTS Teachings
by Vanderhoven7 ini sent a list of statements about current wts teachings to a friend who is being carefully recruited by a seasoned witness.. hi em..... just a quick summary of what all “good” jehovah's witnesses believe...even though some of these things witnesses are not always willing to be transparent about.
this is your crash course.
i have quotations for every item listed if you want or need them.. witnesses believes that:.
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Disillusioned JW
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26
JWD oldtimers
by Gorb inhi friends,.
are here still some oldtimers from the earlier jwd time?
gorby .
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Disillusioned JW
I know what JW means but what does JWD mean?
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5
On the Deuteronomist history (And the majority of the prophets) A shocking discovery this morning
by HowTheBibleWasCreated inevery now and then i come ac ross a person in ancient times that blows my mind.
for instance at one time i agreed with many that in 175bce antiochus place a statute of zeus in the temple and nothing was there before.
but lo and behold several sources from then claim that before zeus was an idol of set-typhon in the temple (synchronism) it was really judas maccabee and his family that were the original 'deuteronomists' (not josiah).
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Disillusioned JW
Thanks for your reply. The verses you mentioned, 1 Samuel 24:16 and 1 Samuel 26:17, are important. 1 Samuel 26:21 (NASB - Updated) says 'The Saul said, "I have sinned. Return, my son David, for I will not harm you again ... and verse 25 says 'Then Saul said to David, "Blessed are you, my son David; you will both accomplish much and surely prevail.' ..." That latter verse is definitely one I remember reading a few days ago when I was reading the surrounding verses to the account in chapter 28 about Saul going to the medium of Endor! [I specifically remember reading the words "... you will both accomplish much and surely prevail ..." of 1 Samuel 26:25.]
Thank you for referring me to chapter 26 since that helped me to find the verse I had earlier read which clearly said David is the son of Saul.
1 Samuel 17:15 about David feeding (or tending to) Saul's sheep reminds me of John 21:15-17 where, according to the according to the account, Jesus tells Peter to feed/tend and shepherd the figurative sheep of Jesus.
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On the Deuteronomist history (And the majority of the prophets) A shocking discovery this morning
by HowTheBibleWasCreated inevery now and then i come ac ross a person in ancient times that blows my mind.
for instance at one time i agreed with many that in 175bce antiochus place a statute of zeus in the temple and nothing was there before.
but lo and behold several sources from then claim that before zeus was an idol of set-typhon in the temple (synchronism) it was really judas maccabee and his family that were the original 'deuteronomists' (not josiah).
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Disillusioned JW
Correction: In my prior post where I said "... the son Jesse ..." I meant to say "... the son of Jesse ...".
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On the Deuteronomist history (And the majority of the prophets) A shocking discovery this morning
by HowTheBibleWasCreated inevery now and then i come ac ross a person in ancient times that blows my mind.
for instance at one time i agreed with many that in 175bce antiochus place a statute of zeus in the temple and nothing was there before.
but lo and behold several sources from then claim that before zeus was an idol of set-typhon in the temple (synchronism) it was really judas maccabee and his family that were the original 'deuteronomists' (not josiah).
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Disillusioned JW
Regarding me a few days ago thinking I had read the Bible say David was a son a Saul, I think that I had misread a verse while skimming quickly through the book of 1 Samuel. 1 Samuel 16:20 (NASB - Updated Edition) says "Jesse ... to Saul by David his son." The reference to "his son" is speaking of the son Jesse, but perhaps it could be argued that the Deuteronomist modified that verse to have it say (or seem to say) that David was the son of Jesse instead of Saul.
HowTheBibleWasCreated, is there a verse in the Bible which says, or implies, that David was the son (not the Son-Law) of Saul? If so, what verse is it?
Thanks for mentioning that Eupolemus wrote that David was the son of Saul. That was new information to me. Today I searched for details about that and the following are some things I found.
http://graceandknowledge.faithweb.com/Eupolemus.html says: 'Moving on to what Eupolemus had to say about the reign of Saul’s successor David, it is noteworthy that Eupolemus calls David the “son” of King Saul rather than “son-in-law.” A later manuscript of Eusebius’ Praeparatio Evangelica, shows an alternate reading here of “son-in-law,” but that is most likely a scribal gloss that brought Eupolemus’ text back into explicit accordance with biblical history. It is possible that when Eupolemus called David the son of Saul, he only meant that David was Saul’s successor and had a familial relationship with him (along the lines of Daniel 5:13, where Nebuchadnezzar is said to be the “father” of his descendant and successor Belshazzar son of Nabonidus – cf. Baruch 1:11). Another hypothesis is that it was Polyhistor who mistakenly called David the son of Saul as he quickly scanned Eupolemus to make an epitome of his text. However, Wacholder proposed (pages 130-131) that Eupolemus may have intentionally altered the relationship of David and Saul in order to elide the historical accounts of David’s rivalry with Saul and Saul’s son Ishbosheth. As we shall see, Eupolemus adopted a rather free approach to interpreting and relating Israel’s history.'
https://www.encyclopedia.com/religion/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/eupolemus says: "Fragment 2 is the longest single remnant of a Greco-Jewish text prior to *Philo. The reigns of Joshua, Samuel, and Saul and his son (sic) David are all mentioned briefly."
https://thebiblicalreview.wordpress.com/tag/hellenistic/ seems to be the web page you found about what Eupolemus wrote. I notice that it says in the part the following:
'Eupolemus was a Jewish-hellenistic historian in the 2nd century BCE. and wrote work entitled On the Kings in Judea. The only surviving fragments are from Alexander Polyhistor’s On the Jews, preserved by Clement of Alexandria (c. CE 150-216) and Eusebius of Caesarea (c. CE 260-340).
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Fragment 2 historiographically traces the lineage of prophets and kings in the early Judean monarchy. Eupolemus traces it as follows:
- Moses: Prophesied for 40 years
- Joshua son of Nun: Prophesied for 30 years and established a sacred tabernacle at Shiloh.
- Samuel: Prophetic reign is not given a period of time.
- Saul: By the will of God, Samuel chooses Saul to be king, and Saul rules for 21 years, then dies.
- David: According to Polyhistor, David son of Saul becomes king, subdues the region through warfare, and dies.
- Solomon: Reigns and builds the temple until the end of Fragment 2.
Historiography and Re-appropriation
Anybody who knows their Bible 101 recognizes that this history of the Judean kings is highly idealized. Already the Deuteronomistic Historian [1] and Chronicle each have unique trajectories and historiographical aims. Each re-appropriates the narrative of the emergence of the ancient Israelite monarchy for their own aims. Eupolemus’s Fragment 2 contributes to an alternative approaches to ancient Israel’s history written for a unique audience.
Based on this idea, I wonder what happens if we choose to understand David as Saul’s son not a scribal error [2].
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2] “Eupolemus”, tranlsation and commentary by F. Fallon, ed. James Charlesworth, The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha vol. 2 (Peabody: Hendrickson Publishers, 1983), 861-872, Fragment 2, n. g, comments that the “error in identifying David as Saul’s son is probably due to a misunderstanding by Alexander Plyhistory. MS B has corrected the error to son-in-law”.'
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On the Deuteronomist history (And the majority of the prophets) A shocking discovery this morning
by HowTheBibleWasCreated inevery now and then i come ac ross a person in ancient times that blows my mind.
for instance at one time i agreed with many that in 175bce antiochus place a statute of zeus in the temple and nothing was there before.
but lo and behold several sources from then claim that before zeus was an idol of set-typhon in the temple (synchronism) it was really judas maccabee and his family that were the original 'deuteronomists' (not josiah).
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Disillusioned JW
Regarding the idea of David being the son of Saul, a couple of days I was reading parts of Rutherford's book Religion and looking up Bible verses quoted by it pertaining to Saul and the witch (spirit medium) of Endor. While reading the context of those verses I thought I read something which said that David was Saul's son, but I didn't spend much thought on that apparent observation.
By the way, 1 Chronicles disagrees with 1 Samuel regarding whether Saul inquired of YHWH/Jehovah or not before visiting the witch (spirit medium). Also the account (by the writer of the account) is making the claim that the medium really did see the spirit of Samuel (and not some demonic imposter of Samuel) and that Saul really did hear and have a conversation with the spirit of Samuel.
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Why Is The Press Suddenly Exposing The Biden Family?
by minimus inthe new york post published how hunter biden was involved with many criminal activities.
they showed how big daddy biden was well aware of what was going on.
the post got called out for this “ non story “.
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Disillusioned JW
I posted it to multiple boards to partially counteract the numerous negative posts on those boards; I wanted to make sure the people posting to each of those boards saw the post. I think the poll results mentioned in the article are accurate, since I know that the AP is a very reliable pollster.
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Neanderthals carb loaded, helping grow their big brains
by Disillusioned JW insee https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/05/neanderthals-carb-loaded-helping-grow-their-big-brains .
the article says in part 'the study is “groundbreaking,” says harvard university evolutionary biologist rachel carmody, who was not part of the research.
the work suggests the ancestors of both humans and neanderthals were cooking lots of starchy foods at least 600,000 years ago.
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Disillusioned JW
See https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/05/neanderthals-carb-loaded-helping-grow-their-big-brains . The article says in part 'The study is “groundbreaking,” says Harvard University evolutionary biologist Rachel Carmody, who was not part of the research. The work suggests the ancestors of both humans and Neanderthals were cooking lots of starchy foods at least 600,000 years ago. And they had already adapted to eating more starchy plants long before the invention of agriculture 10,000 years ago, she says.'
The article (in the above quote) has an error in suggesting that Neanderthals were not humans. Neanderthals were also humans, though possibly not a subspecies of our species (Homo sapiens) of humans. Neanderthals were in our genus, Homo, and as such they were humans. That is because the word Latin Homo means "Human/Man" and the word Homo as used in taxonomy means "Human/Man". [See https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homo and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo .] There is also genetic evidence that our species (or sub species of Homo sapiens) interbred with the Neanderthals and produced viable offspring - many of us carry some Neanderthal genes.
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Is There Life On Mars?
by LoveUniHateExams inno, i'm not talking about the david bowie song, i'm asking does life exist on mars?.
opportunity rover (the one before the present one) took photos of strange, puffball-like sphericals seemingly sprouting on the martian surface.. these photos aren't conclusive evidence but it is an exciting area to investigate.. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-9546225/scientists-claim-evidence-fungi-red-planet.html .
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Disillusioned JW
Based upon the science articles and books I have read I believe there is microscopic life of some kind (maybe bacteria or something like it, fungi, and/or a taxonomic kingdom that doesn't exist on Earth) on Mars, more than five decimeters below the surface in some areas and/or in a cave (if Mars has caves). -
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Awake Magazine - No Longer Being Printed?
by JWTom insomeone made reference in another post that the awake magazine had ceased publication.
maybe i missed it since i have not been on here as much in the last 6 months.
is this true?
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Disillusioned JW
Regarding "Got rid of DOs" what is meant by "DOs"?
Is it really true that practically all the young JWs are leaving once they turn 18 years old?
Before the Society downsized (and dumbed down) the science content of the 'Awake!" I appreciated the bound volumes of the Awake! more than the vast majority of the other books of the WT Society. I sold off nearly all of my WT bound volumes but I retained bound volumes for the years 1966 - 2008 (many of those I bought used after I stopped attending the Kingdom Hall).
Regarding the Babylon the Great Has Fallen book I sold my copy of it on eBay years ago, but now I kind of miss it (though I can read it online and on the WT CD-ROM library). I had bought my copy at a thrift store because when I tried to order it (or was that the Then is Finished the Mystery of God book instead?) from the Society more than 20 years ago it was too late since the WT had ceased publishing it. Yesterday I noticed that nice condition copies of it sell for at least $15 (including shipping costs) on eBay. Maybe I once had a copy of the Babylon the Great Has Fallen when I was under 10 years old; I'm not sure.
Kingdom Halls will probably reopen soon since things are starting to turn somewhat back to normal now that much of the USA population has received a Covid-19 vaccination.